[SPOILER] The Cloverfield Paradox - Movie Discussions

[kosmopol]

Dear People,

let's discuss here the movie "The Cloverfield Paradox", the scences which could lead us to new insights, the moments, screenshots etc.
The spoiler can be also posted here, so be aware toread this thread AFTER you've seen "Cloverfield", "10 Cloverfield Lane" and "The Cloverfield Paradox".

Let's go!
P.S. I still haven't watched it so I'll avoid this thread for a while

[Dominic1978]

Spoiler: show

I believe it links all three movies nicely together because of the multiple realities. Also the station in the other reality crashed into the atlantic. Maybe nearby Coney island? The mixing of realities brought monsters to one of the realities. The first Cloverfield had no mention of an energy crisis, but maybe the things happening echo through in other dimensions? So in the reality of CF1 a spacestation from another reality crashed in sea and brought about the CF monster. Maybe have to rewatch them all again. CF marathon! 

[Melodyman]

Well that was a nice turd. What a stinker! Its obvious why this film was delayed a few times as we can see they basically had to film a whole other story to go with the existing plot. Also can see why they went to netflix. Reviews would have killed it and it would have rotted in theaters. Not sure what happens to the ARG now.. but hopefully, JJ and BR have realizxed that you cant just take unrelated lo budget scripts and then try and bend, squeeze and stuff them into another world entirely by putting the name on it and showing a few related bits to try and tie it together. Next one better be great and have a full game to build it.. First time I have been left totally unsatisfied after one og these events,,.. Oh well..

[Pixiestix]

I'm not doing spoiler tags, it's ridiculous to do that for a thread that is specifically about the film - If you haven't seen it yet, that's on you.

My rambling & incomplete take:
{ ~=perceived fact, *=my theory}

~ Tag exists in each of the dimensions we will visit, so Tag is our “constant”
~ The dimensions as we know it are: CF1 {Cloverfield}, 10CL {10 Cloverfield Lane}, TCP1 & TCP2 {The Cloverfield Paradox}. {I will be ignoring the manga for this}
* I do not believe any of these dimensions are the same. Despite seeing a Clovie like monster at the end, I do not believe TCP1 is the same as CF1.
~ The Shepard doesn't exist in every dimension.
~ The Shepard only exists because of the energy crisis, and THAT crisis doesn't exist everywhere.
~ There is no energy crisis in CF1.
~ The satellite that falls in CF1 was part of the ChimpanzIII, not the Shepard.  {1st arg confirmation}
~ Clovie on CF1 was a monster asleep in the deep water, awakened by Tag's drilling for "nectar"
~ There is also no energy crisis in 10CL
~ In 10CL, the invasion starts in space. {2nd ARG confirmation}
~ The particle ccelerator in TCP2 doesn't ever work, Mina makes that clear.
~ The energy crisis in TCP2 led to war a LOT faster
~ Because of this, TCP2 Schmidt was up to no good, using the space station for victory for the Germany army
~ We know that Volkov sabotaged the ship, although we don't know why {see more below}
~ Tam didn't exist at all in TCP2 {At the very least, she had nothing to do with the mission}
~ Jensen fills in Tam's role {in TCP1, Jensen may or may not exist, but has nothing to do with the mission at the very least}
~ When convergence occurred, TCP1 Shepard mostly survived, while TCP2 Shepard broke apart with major enough parts falling to earth to be fully recognised. It is no secret when this happens, news agencies don't hide it. The mission was never a secret to begin with. Everyone on earth is aware of it.
* The majority of crew from TCP2 died along with space station. During convergence, some items, well, converged.
~ Files from TCP2 Shepard ended up in the Shepard from TCP1. {Schmidt’s logs for instance}
~ The station from TCP1 manifested/teleported in such a way as to merge with Mina, who did not die/fall with TCP2 Shepard.
* The gyroscope that disappears from TCP2 during Volkov's intentional sabotage is suddenly missing from TCP1 Shepard, where we can assume no such sabotage occurred.
Volkov's situation... is tricky. I believe he actually merged with himself. But I need to explain the demons first.
The film foreshadows the fact that demons, monsters, sea monsters.... Old gods, if you will {say for instance, the Overlord} will slip through the cracks of space & time due to the "Cloverfield Paradox" and these cracks do not have to appear at the same location, same time period, etc.
*** IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE that Clovie and the Parasites {if this isn’t a band name by now, the world has betrayed me} were brought to CF1 via the paradox. This doesn’t mean the events didn’t happen the way we thought – with Clovie being awakened by the drilling, it just means his dimensional shift happened during sleep.
*** On TCP1, there is a massive “invasion” of we assume Clovie type beings. We do not know for sure what is there, we just know there are “things” and I {like many others} assume this doesn’t imply “Clovie and the Parasites” but rather multiple Clovie like beings or a variety a la “The Mist”
* We already have unconfirmed info that the next film will be “Cloverfield Overlord” and be a supernatural based tale of WW2 – THIS MAY NOT EVEN OCCUR IN ANY DIMENSION WE HAVE SEEN! But this is where Volkov comes in….
* Volkov seems to already have a connection to something who gives him instructions. This is TCP1's Volkov. Sure. But he is saddled with the drama from TCP2's Volkov - the voice and the gyro. The voice that caused Volkov to sabotage the ship possibly convinces him that they only way to hide the gyro is to sew it INTO himself. That's how it appears in prime Volkov, the merge caused it to appear {like with Mina and The Shepard}, without also having any physical evidence as to how {such as, a scar or stitches}. The voice {The Overlord? Old God?} continues to cause TCP1's Volkov to attempt further crazy shit. I can't explain the worms, but in NO WAY do I think they "become the aliens in 10CL.
* As for the aliens in 10CL dimension, it is entirely possible they were shifted from their own dimension while in space, and instead of looking for home, went to conquer the nearest planet. OR It is entirely possible in THEIR dimension, Earth was their planet.
* I believe whatever was speaking to Volkov was a being that was trying to break through dimensions, although I do not know how it was about to interact in TCP2 instead of TCP1, but I do believe it knew only one particle accelerator could be allowed to work and that the other one would be a better option.
* I HAVE NO EXPLANATION FOR THE ARM!!!!!!! If it was related to the demon, I find it fully doubtful that it would reverse course and help them.


I'm certain this wasn't everything, but I'm tired... I'll add more as I think of it.
For the record, I loved the film, but I feel like anyone who didn't follow the ARGs isn't going to get it.

[Dominic1978]

Well thought out and well written theory.
Better than my ramblings. 
Jokes aside, awesome!
Thanks, Pixiestix!

[kosmopol]

Great ideas and thoughts here!

@Dominic1978
Yes! I have the same feeling - the possibility of Alternate Realities may fix all the narrative inconsequences, which sounds for the first part kinda lame excuse for the authors. But actually it's a huge narrative challenge to build various realities and to play with the viewer perception. I'd love it, even being aware somebody is playing with my perception.

@Melodyman
I suppose JJ and Bad Robot had a difficult challenge to satisfy moviegoers and ARG players. The problem is, the first group is surely way huger than the second one. But the second one has strong expectations. So the coup to go Netflix was rather a try toward the second group - us. So the movie is imho cinematographically not the masterpiece, with plot holes and goofy stereotyped characters. But as ARG maniac I was very satisfied to re-watch the movie for the second time and to search for hints and hidden informations. Like it were a huge trailer we've always used to analyse.
My - only - hope is, this ARG will go along. Because if it were it, I'd be in the same way dissatisfied.

@Pixiestix
Wow, thank you for such many ideas and notes.
* I agree that Tag is constant (and probably it has another logo in the other world, like that minimalistic writing on the wall in the scene of Mundys death.
* Absolutely, CF1 is not the same dimension as CF3 - the timelines inconsistences would be just signs for another version of multiverse
* Does the Bad-Schmidt-Version belong to the variation of the multiverse close to "Overlord"?

The film foreshadows the fact that demons, monsters, sea monsters.... Old gods, if you will {say for instance, the Overlord} will slip through the cracks of space & time due to the "Cloverfield Paradox" and these cracks do not have to appear at the same location, same time period, etc.

This your idea is interesting. What if there are actually such dimension cracks to another dimensions, which are inhabitant mostly by such demons, monsters etc.? So they don't being summoned, awaken etc. but just come via open door? I hope JJ won't make a movie about such dimension though, since it will be a sfx orgy (not that I don't want to support Neville Page who would become rich after such sfx monster orgy), lol.

AND btw. You all know this one:

(an old image from that viral page for Cloverfield DVD/BluRay page, https://io9.gizmodo.com/387180/first-images-from-cloverfield-2)
Is it perhaps the home dimension of the monsters and wil be revealed by Bad Robot, say, 2028 or so?

The arm, it was perhaps kinda sidekick to Star Wars? And to Twin Peaks? (I know, I'm going too far with interpretations, lol). It was for me the comical part of the movie - the arm and Mundy himself. Sometimes a little too goofy like in the old times of "Armageddon" (youthful jolly I am ready to forive to the screen writer JJ Abrams).

Besides of this, I'd also love to know, who was Volkov talking with via mirror.

BTW, there are possibilities to ask JJ Abrams and Julus Onah personally, so hurry up, if it isn't too late:
https://www.facebook.com/TheCloverfieldParadox/photos/a.1072279202914364.1073741828.1071121076363510/1072276029581348/?type=3&theater

[IronJ146]

Yo, glad I finally found where the old school Cloverfield crew Are hanging out. Wish I would've found it before this round started, but looks like we'll have more coming our way.

I thought the movie was fun, but it did suffer from a (kinda necessary) problem of folding it into the Cloverfield universe.  It was pretty clear what was added both story wise and cinematically to make both things work together, and it robbed a little from both but set us up better for the future. The husband's scenes were all totally fan service, and I was into all of it.

I like the idea of "Cloverfield" just being this Lovecraftian doom thing that can take any form and is only motivated to destroy and each movie/dimension being another version of that happening. Kind've a throw back to some of  the ideas of what the first movie would be really early on with MPG being like Cthulu or whatever. I feel like this movie being "the thing that started all of it" is all it needed to be and did a fine job doing that. I think people looking for answers specific as the exact address of MPG's mom's house where she gave birth to it and told it to go to New York were expecting too much.

For us on the ARG side, I feel like our main takeaway, outside of Tagruato still being down, is that a Mark Stambler exists in our universe. We're one of these crazy dimensions, as evidence of Tagruoto existing in it,  so maybe that's our pov as players? We interacted with Mark during this ARG then saw another version of him in the movie (in the future,no less) with a conspicuous @ under his name. I feel like he's this film's big addition to the ARG cannon, and probably a good place for us to keep our eyes when with an impending Cloverfield chapter later this year.

[Pixiestix]

I have to disagree. I feel that as players, we aren't in any dimension. We are able to interact within each ARG, but we are not a part of any of their worlds. We are mere observers - your suspension of disbelief has to extend to that, or nothing makes any sense at all.

Nor do I think the Overlord is Clovie. The Cloverfield Paradox brings these other "monsters" to these dimensions, but the Overlord isn't them. He isn't Clovie. He isn't the aliens. He isn't whatever we saw in TCP1. We may never see the Overlord - but we will learn more in October!!!

[IronJ146]

Nor do I think the Overlord is Clovie. The Cloverfield Paradox brings these other "monsters" to these dimensions, but the Overlord isn't them. He isn't Clovie. He isn't the aliens. He isn't whatever we saw in TCP1. We may never see the Overlord - but we will learn more in October!!!

I didn't mean to imply any of it that literally.  What I was trying to say was that I like the idea of the premise of the franchise being this vague thing that manifests as these different things, and this movie was fine being the catalyst. I honestly didn't even make the connection that the next one was called Overlord and that I was presenting the idea of an "overlord" until you pointed it out (is how dumb I am ).

[kosmopol]

@IronJ146
Welcome back!
And: I see your point! [META] Actually the authors did a very smart step to bringing narrative mess to a higher Order being part of other dimensions. [/META]
Interesting idea about ths actual movie being the catalysator of the whole dimension slips, I think you are on the right path here.

There should be an impuls. Initially (back to CF1) we all thought the impuls were the drilling works by Tagruato (if we don't mention the manga where the story goes further back in time). But perhaps the malfunction of Shepard brought the slips into dimensions - besides of time dimension, which exist outside the space dimension, in a diachrionic cut.

I wonder, which role will play Mark Stambler here - and my HOPE is, he is another Rachel Blake (from The LOST Experience). THIS would be great. If the whole story would be bridge until "Overlord" comes!